SiC wrote: ↑Wed Apr 12, 2023 10:45 am
You won't get a complete grid collapse either. Power distribution doesn't work like that.
If you do, then it's going to be a black start which takes weeks to get online. Power stations can't function without grid power, so they all are shutdown. Other infrastructure will fail if long enough and make bringing the grid back up even longer. In that scenario the whole country will be fucked and having an internal combustion vehicle to drive somewhere isn't going to be much use either. Not least that'll run out of fuel at some point too. Don't expect easily refilling as petrol stations will be off, refineries shutdown and pipelines inactive. Clogging up the whole supply chain.
Instead what will happen is local grid sections will be load shed. They'll then be switched back in after a few hours when the grid has a chance to take in the load again. Wether from demand lowering or other power generating units coming online. So just a bit of inconvenience for a few hours with an individual. But still possible to drive around with a fuel or electric vehicle.
Which incidentally if any power failure did happen localised or national, those with solar and local battery storage at home will still be able to continue to function with the basics.
I wasn't talking about total grid failure.
I said when the grid is overloaded you'll be banned from charging your EV. That'll be easy to do with smart meters & smart chargers talking to each other & shutting down on remote command. The next step will be limiting charging hours all the time for the same reason* to ensure you can't travel when they don't want you too.
How are you going to fill up a internal combustion based vehicle if the local grid is down? Local fuel station needs electricity to run the pumps as well.
Generator would be expensive to purchase and run so highly unlikely they would bother. They'd just wait for the local grid to come back online again...
By filling up when the grid is working. Which milkfloats will be banned from doing as it overloads our already insufficient grid.
<tinfoil hat>
The WEF are backing EVs because they know they'll be able to use the overloaded grids as a way to make charging them impossible. It's part of their plan for people to own nothing, eat bugs & be happy. So no travel, live in your 15min bubble & be a lifeless worker drone as they want.
</tinfoil hat>
They won't be banned, just regulated. The grid can supply enough power for our needs currently and it's a known issue that infrastructure needs improving. Part of this will be more intelligent use of electricity. So high demand uses will be discouraged. Highly unlikely stopped as they'll just charge more (and make more money) for those that want to use heavy demand appliances (not just cars but washing machines/ovens/etc) at peak times.
Vast majority of journeys people make are short distances. These will hardly use the grid to replenish themselves anyway.
Also solar is becoming more and more affordable. A lot of the personal vehicle charging that people need will be able to be done using localised power generation.
What happens if my electric car is completely flat and I don't have solar and the grid is down and I really really need to go somewhere and and and...
I'll just take my other car. As mentioned above, possibly a fuel powered vehicle. It's not as if I'm only ever going to own one car that you seem to be presuming.
SiC wrote: ↑Wed Apr 12, 2023 10:45 am
You won't get a complete grid collapse either. Power distribution doesn't work like that.
If you do, then it's going to be a black start which takes weeks to get online. Power stations can't function without grid power, so they all are shutdown. Other infrastructure will fail if long enough and make bringing the grid back up even longer. In that scenario the whole country will be fucked and having an internal combustion vehicle to drive somewhere isn't going to be much use either. Not least that'll run out of fuel at some point too. Don't expect easily refilling as petrol stations will be off, refineries shutdown and pipelines inactive. Clogging up the whole supply chain.
Instead what will happen is local grid sections will be load shed. They'll then be switched back in after a few hours when the grid has a chance to take in the load again. Wether from demand lowering or other power generating units coming online. So just a bit of inconvenience for a few hours with an individual. But still possible to drive around with a fuel or electric vehicle.
Which incidentally if any power failure did happen localised or national, those with solar and local battery storage at home will still be able to continue to function with the basics.
I wasn't talking about total grid failure.
I said when the grid is overloaded you'll be banned from charging your EV. That'll be easy to do with smart meters & smart chargers talking to each other & shutting down on remote command. The next step will be limiting charging hours all the time for the same reason* to ensure you can't travel when they don't want you too.
As I said above, they won't be banned. Not when they can make more money instead by changing a premium for peak usage. Peak/off peak usage costings is hardly a new concept. Whether it's economy seven or even back in the old days when phone calls were expensive during the day (as the phone network switching infrastructure was under high demand).
If it costs more to charge at peak then people won't charge at peak. It's not exactly hard or complicated to have a charger that you program to operate on set hours when it's cheaper. Even a simple timer will do that!
Or use your home battery pack, fully charged after a days non use from no one at home, to transfer energy into the cars battery pack.
Someone will drive home from work and hook up to an automatic charger that is set to charge at cheaper periods. It doesn't matter if they need to out again later as they're almost certainly only have used a few KWh energy out of the pack and have loads still left in there.
Electric cars do around 4 miles to 5 miles per kWh. The average miles per day for UK drivers in 2019 (so pre COVID when it was more) is 20 miles.
That's 4 to 5kWh of energy that needs putting back in. Add another kWh for (unrealistic) levels of efficiency then that's 6kWh of energy.
An immersion heater is 3kw. A convection heater is 2kw. A fan oven is 2kw. Quite easily to have all three running for an hour or so in a small house. Oback in the "olden" days during the night when economy7 kicked in to allow night storage heaters to build up heat would be using more than that.
Even small commercial properties (especially with air conditioning) can be pulling that at peak times during the day. That's when the grid will be at the highest demand.
It's not a lot and something that can easily be replenished during the night. Or those that really need to charge their vehicle at peak time, there still will be enough capacity to do so as most won't want to pay the peak costs.
The real issue with electric cars is not grid infrastructure.
It's those that don't have properties that have off street parking that can easily hook up. Street charging infrastructure is very lacking and possibly will always be. Those will be the people hardest hit and may have to find alternative ways of getting around if travelling longer distances.
It's also that there simply is far too many cars on the road. That's nothing to do with propulsion power either. But an issue with cars in the modern world generally.
While some journeys are absolutely necessary and/or appropriate by car, many are people being lazy and fat. Cars in cities and other high population densities really don't work. Legs are much better option for those areas. Yes some can't use them but vast majority of the population can and should be.
Cars are great for sparsely populated areas and/or covering long distances.
The biggest problem with EV's as I see it is they seem to be the only answer. The whole engergy thing is being driven not by people who understand how to make stuff efficient but by politicians and vested interests. Back in the 80's Renault were developing engines that were nearly as clean as a hot working cat but they were that clean all the time. They could also get 100mpg out of a small hatchback. This tech didn't get followed as the powers that be decided everything shoulod have a cat. Cat's won't work unless they have polution to convert something a clean engine couldn't supply. They just keep watering down the fuels making everything less efficient. I will never have a fucking plug in piece of shit as hopefully I will be dead by the time they outnumber proper cars.
Hooli wrote: ↑Wed Apr 12, 2023 10:56 am
I wasn't talking about total grid failure.
I said when the grid is overloaded you'll be banned from charging your EV. That'll be easy to do with smart meters & smart chargers talking to each other & shutting down on remote command. The next step will be limiting charging hours all the time for the same reason* to ensure you can't travel when they don't want you too.
They've already had this problem in the USA recently.
Hooli wrote: ↑Wed Apr 12, 2023 10:56 am
I wasn't talking about total grid failure.
I said when the grid is overloaded you'll be banned from charging your EV. That'll be easy to do with smart meters & smart chargers talking to each other & shutting down on remote command. The next step will be limiting charging hours all the time for the same reason* to ensure you can't travel when they don't want you too.
They've already had this problem in the USA recently.
Exactly, but SiC says it won't happen so they must have imagined it.
"Scratched EV battery? Your insurer may have to junk the whole car"
While some automakers like Ford Motor Co (F.N) and General Motors Co (GM.N) said they have made battery packs easier to repair, Tesla Inc (TSLA.O) has taken the opposite tack with its Texas-built Model Y, whose new structural battery pack has been described by experts as having "zero repairability."
"The UK currently has no EV battery recycling facilities, so Synetiq has to remove the batteries from written-off cars and store them in containers. Hill estimated at least 95% of the cells in the hundreds of EV battery packs - and thousands of hybrid battery packs - Synetiq has stored at Doncaster are undamaged and should be reused."
All very eco friendly There are those angles to consider too as well as how much energy is used to make them and the batteries.
As for solar it's fucking shit in the UK. It's all being argued for as the price is coming down but how much energy does it actually make?
There are those angles to consider too as well as how much energy is used to make them and the batteries.