Eddie Honda's 96 Citroen Synergie VSX 1.9TD 7 seater.

[bub2006]

From what I've read then Eddie's capacity on a trailer is under the towing capacity of the vehicle? For a gross train weight of 3500 kg you don't need another license either. I've owned touring caravans and still have my trailer.

[bub2006]

Eddie,how are you finding the synergie overall? I viewed the 806 for sale locally a couple of years back. Some sort of special edition with Caramac seat outers and a green chequered inlay,climate control etc on an R plate. Xud turbo lump in it. Gave it a miss because it was smoking terrible and smelt like dead dog inside. Looks ideal for family holidays,carboots etc.

[Eddie Honda]

I thought the max capacity on a trailer, even if unloaded, had to be under the max towing capacity of the towing vehicle?

No. Actual weights apply in this case.

Because granddad rights and I have category CE on my licence anyway, I don't have to worry about the licence weight rules. I just have to concern myself with vehicle weight rules.

By way of example, I've just cleaned* up the plate on the eurovan.

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GVW/MAM (gross vehicle weight/maximum authorised mass) = 2360kg
GCW/GTW (gross combination weight/gross train weight) = 3660kg
1 axle (front axle max weight) = 1225kg
2 axle (rear axle max weight) = 1300kg

Unladen weight is quoted as 1565kg, so there is plenty of margin (795kg) for carrying 7 fat bastards.

Consider the post-97 licence rules for category B. For licencing theoretical MAM applies.

(i) You can drive vehicles up to 3,500kg MAM with up to 8 passenger seats (with a trailer up to 750kg*).
(ii) You can also tow heavier trailers* if the total MAM of the vehicle and trailer is not more than 3,500kg.

(*Trailers 750kg and under are type approval category O1. Trailers 751kg to 3500kg are O2.)

Under a B licence, you could drive the Citroen with a O1 trailer OR and O2 trailer up to MAM 1140kg.

Let's look at the Indespension CT27147 trailer plate.

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GVW/MAM = 2700kg
(Axle) 1 = 1400kg
(Axle) 2 = 1400kg
(Nose weight max) = 150kg

Unladen weight is quoted as 672kg

From that MAM of car plus MAM of trailer is 6060kg. Way more than a B (3500kg), but less that a granddad B (8250kg) and less that a BE (7000kg)

So having passed the licence hurdle, I can consider actual vehicle weights and the towing capacity of the Citroen is (3660-2360) = 1300kg. Less the unladen weight of trailer gives me a payload of 628kg. Handy enough for a c. 450kg tricycle and a handful of very light vehicles.

Note in Section 4 here https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... he-trailer

"Unlike the situation in section 1 above, driving licence entitlement is calculated on potential weight - Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM) - rather than actual weight."

[Eddie Honda]

Example 2:

Take my lightweight Duuo Plus. It is plated at 700kg MAM. Unladen it is 150kg, Payload is therefore 550kg. If I stick it behind the Jizz, I can only put 250kg in it as the GD1 CVT is approved for 400kg unbraked and 800kg max. There is no need to have the thing replated to a lower value. If I stick it behind the Volvo I can put about 400kg in it as that has an unladen weight of 1100kg.

[Eddie Honda]

From what I've read then Eddie's capacity on a trailer is under the towing capacity of the vehicle? For a gross train weight of 3500 kg you don't need another license either.

Correct. The trailer is capable of 2700kg, although I this combo I can't exceed 3660kg GTW. I could possibly manage more that 628kg on the trailer providing I carry fuck all in the car...

Anyway, I reckon the first trip was pulling 950kg and second 1200kg.

[Eddie Honda]

Eddie,how are you finding the synergie overall? I viewed the 806 for sale locally a couple of years back. Some sort of special edition with Caramac seat outers and a green chequered inlay,climate control etc on an R plate. Xud turbo lump in it. Gave it a miss because it was smoking terrible and smelt like dead dog inside. Looks ideal for family holidays,carboots etc.

I'm warming to it. I'm not a big dieselhead, but I like the rugged simplicity of the XUD. Good all rounder and the kids like it. The bastard registration tax here would mean €700 to register it and then €710 per year motor tax. From January, it'll be sky-high. I'm humming and hawing about importing the 306 cabby, but that's similar money.

Here's the drive now...

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IMG_20191020_141634_0.jpg (1.45 MiB) Viewed 4425 times

[Hooli]

Interesting stuff on the towing rules, I've never understood them as I've never needed too.

[bub2006]

A lot of errors in how folk read the towing regs. A lot of folk are adamant you cannot tow anything. Same with trike licensing. They changed regs in 2013 saying need a full bike license for any trike then in 2014 said anyone over 21 with full car can ride a trike in the UK only. The powers that be made a big song and dance over the 3dl regs in 2013 but not a big fanfare with the update hence misconception. Same with towing as in 3500kg gross train weight yet if you have a 3500kg rated van you can still tow another 750kg. Madness.

Eddie,I see a lot regards tax regs in Ireland. Seems mental. A chap I know has bought a Lexus 430 imported from Ireland for £400 because of tax regs mean they are worthless there apparently. The xud is a great lump too. If it's Bosch pump it can run neat veg too. Look for UFO on top of pump. Easy to turn fuelling up a tad too to help the progress of a large vehicle.

[fried onions]

That is a great driveway picture. Are you putting the Reliants back on the road?

[Eddie Honda]

Towing rules are officially written to confuse! The Road Safety Authority here are slightly better. I'm just about up to speed with the 3DLD national derogations with regards trikes and so on. Irish law is similar to UK with regards to motorcycle towing, but it's poorly drafted.

Engine cc tax up to 2008 is bad (up to 1800-odd p.a.), but CO2 tax is even worse (c. 2.6k?). Simple answer is to make sure the fleet is over 30 years old.