K Series Kettle "wisdom"

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AMCrebel
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K Series Kettle "wisdom"

Post by AMCrebel »

I've always understood that the K series fondness for OMGHGF was due at least in part to cost-cutting on the parts - HG itself, the dowels and some other bits.

When I casually mentioned that on here (giving my opinion that you shouldn't let accountants determine your head gasket) a few folk said that wasn't the issue.

I know (I think) I never heard about the issue on the 1.1 or 1.4 variants - so what was it?

Cheap bits?
A capacity stretch too far at 1.8?

Something else?

I mean it's like Brexit - we won't get a definitive answer - but what do folks think?
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Re: K Series Kettle "wisdom"

Post by red5 »

Inlet manifolds/gaskets in my experience on some of the 1.8s. Same symptoms as hgf. Leads to same actual failure as well. .
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Re: K Series Kettle "wisdom"

Post by Hooli »

From a write up in a LR mag years ago the final fix was a stronger 'ladder' under the block and different bolts. That's the plate that the headbolts screw into. From reading into it an ali block expands & contracts more with heat than the steel bolts so when the engine was cold the head wasn't clamped enough & the thinner earlier ladder allowed the head to flex enough to blow the gasket before everything was fully warmed up.
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Re: K Series Kettle "wisdom"

Post by fried onions »

Graduates designed it.
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Re: K Series Kettle "wisdom"

Post by DodgeRover »

A committee of graduates comrade?
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Re: K Series Kettle "wisdom"

Post by fried onions »

Dunno if communists were in on this one, I think they'd given up by then.
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Re: K Series Kettle "wisdom"

Post by cros »

I bought a very cheap Freelander 'powered' by one of these things partly out of curiousity to see if they are as shit as their reputation suggests.
I've read a book called 'K series' and scores of explanations of their problems. I've had the head off mine, removed loads of sealer and marvelled at the original inlet manifold gasket that appears to have been manufactured from snot.
After checking for cracks, the liner heights, head flatness etc. I fitted genuine stretch bolts along with the appropriate gasket and have been running it for 2 years.
An ex Rover dealer told me that they sold loads of K powered motors of all capacities and all seemed well for a few years. Then the failures started coming and there hasn't been an across the board long term cure- even the stronger 'ladder' doesn't always work.
My local scrapyard owner had never knowingly taken a K series vehicle in which didn't have head gasket failure and that was over many years and scores of cars.
Mine needs an eye kept on the water despite there being absolutely no external leaks. I do all the recommended things like allowing the engine to warm up before asking much of it, otherwise it does mostly long journeys and quite a bit of towing.
Sometimes you go 1000 miles without using a drop, other times it will take half a pint in this distance which would be totally unacceptable to a normal user.
In short, I am not normal and the K series is wank.
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Re: K Series Kettle "wisdom"

Post by AutoshiteBoy »

The ladder is a bit of bollocks. The K-series was largely fine when in the form it was designed to be; closed deck block and made from virgin aluminium alloy. The head gasket usually failed on these when the sealing bead on the head gasket split from the metal part of the gasket, but you're talking 8+ years of service life. These were very good engines.

The trouble came when Rover stretched it. Starting from the top, the head has 'hot spots', its was never designed to cope with hauling 2 tonnes and the resultant energy flow. Hot spots cause the gasket to fail, think of the gasket as a fuse in this instance.

The head also shuffled around as by now they'd started using plastic dowels. This was later remedied by using steel, but the thing was still tortured as the block was weak. The only difference between 1.1, 1.4, 1.6 & 1.8 is the thickness of the cylinder liner. They sit on a 1.2mm shelf and can move.

The water pump was also later enlarged to get the coolant flowing faster, remember it was originally designed for a Metro with a small radiator and a small pipe run and 2 pints in the block. Later cars, think 75 or Freelander, or christ, a MGF and how far the coolant has to run and how much heat is being dissipated through it. The water pumps were all weak however. A slight coolant loss is a major issue for the K-series as I've explained because of volume and pressure.

Plastics were a major issue for the stretched K-series. As per the dowels, the inlet manifold was plastic and had coolant running through. A jiggle valve would regularly stick causing pressure issues. Also, the rubber gasket on the plastic inlet manifold was a disaster. It was later upgraded but it was never sufficient. An VVC inlet manifold is essential if you don't consider the inlet manifold gasket a service item.

The plastic coolant cap is shite. I've bought them by the dozen, tested them all and sent 10 back before. They are a service item, but don't assume that because its new, it works. Again, a weak cap means a loss of coolant and a loss of pressure. Loss of pressure equals lower boiling point, less heat dissipation.

The sump was later upgraded from pressed steel and cast alloy to put some strength back into the block. The stretch bolts can be re-used if they've not stretched, but they must go into the hole they came out of. Never juggle them around.

Newer gaskets, largely copied from Rover's T-series fix aren't the answer. The ladder isn't the answer. They are all sticking plaster fixes.

Blue anti-freeze also killed them. Green or red only.
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Re: K Series Kettle "wisdom"

Post by TADTS »

Brilliant engine.....in theory. Decent power to weight ratio and was pretty advanced for its time. Having a light 16v 1400cc engine pumping out 105bhp in a family hatchback really showed the escort etc up as a pile of shite.

I've had a couple, an early R8 214 and a late "RHonda" 414.

Massive difference in build quality between the two. The R8 suffered HGF around 70k, fixed with a genuine gasket kit and it lasted another 70k before being sold on.

The 414 had HGF twice over 10k miles. Second failure was actually caused by the inlet manifold gasket failing. That time I really went to town, skimmed the head as much as I could get away with, better gasket, steel dowels etc etc. Then promptly wrote the car off.....

Cash was tight as I'd just bought a house so picked up a metro with the 1.1 SOHC SPi K series and it was bulletproof. Ran and ran and ran. My wife learnt to drive in it, passed her test in it and ran it as her car for a while before picking up a KA (a worse car in most ways)

The 1.1 is a real peach of a motor. You could really make it sing.

I've been told the coolant system was "just enough", with little to no margin built in. So if you get a leak you'll likely not get away with it. Certainly Lotus managed to use the K hard on track and they were reliable enough.


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Re: K Series Kettle "wisdom"

Post by DodgeRover »

A friend runs the waterless coolant in his track day MGF. Seems to help him.
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